Should you be allowed to play regularly, or should the entire party be put in a cheater lobby? People would catch on to that immediately. Doesn't matter what the message says. If they all of a sudden can't play community servers they know what's up. If it was a particular error every time then it would take about 30 seconds for someone to post online telling everyone which error to look out for. If it was any random error it would be too obvious.
Or you know, give the "VAC has failed to authenticate" error that even the Legit players get and takes a long time to fix It tends to fix itself when it feels like it. No way to tell if it's legit or on purpose. GMOD did that for an anti piracy measure. It included the steamID in the error, so if it was tripped by a legit player they could tell. Make them able to play on all community servers. Many of those have admins that hand out bans anyways.
So for community servers nothing would change, it wouldn't get worse either. But for MM it would be better. So it's a pro and a neutral. The only problem as i see it, would be if it negatively affected one of the two.
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Not really. With your Shadowban idea, yes. But if Valve would just instantly ban all cheaters, without the ban-wave idea, and then update VAC consistently enough to stay ahead of the hacks they're fighting, it would allow for trade-bans AND decrease the number of cheaters willing to re-buy CSGO every days. Yeah, but the point is that Valve isn't doing that.
They are not updating VAC consistently enough to stay ahead of the hacks. Which is why I think a change of plans might be in order. They have to do something. Cheating in this game has gotten out of hand to the point where it slowly, but surely, stops being fun to play or even watch the amount of blatant cheaters when watching popular streams like pasha, summit or shroud is staggering , completely insane; sometimes it looks like there's more cheaters in this game than legit players.
They update it, hackers think they're in the clear, VAC collects as many hackers as they can, then a ban wave goes out. And the process starts all over again. To decrease the amount of time in between ban waves would cost more time and resources, because they would have to continuously find the ways in which hackers are hiding their injections, which sounds easy but is insanely difficult. Action C would take a lot of work to get right, as people can switch their IPs within a certain range with just a call to the ISP, but if Steam wanted they could ask the ISP to remove a customer from their services.
Again, this would take a lot more resources than is currently being used by VAC, but is a decent solution in the long run. Feel free to absolutely destroy this theory, but I think it's a bit of a better one compared to Shadow-banning, especially because having Shadow-ban servers would probably cost more than just increasing the man-power devoted to VAC-related issues.
IP addresses are not people. This would be a really stupid idea, a lot of ISPs swap out people's IPs constantly, multiple times a week. I think what should actually work is banning MAC addresses. You cheated? That'll be a new copy of the game.
And a new network adapter. Then again, I'm not sure people that use this bullshit would be smart enough to even get a Linux distribution installed, and then use that, and find a cheat that works on Linux pretty sure there's none right now. I don't actually disagree with you. Except for the IP-based bans, since a lot of buildings are behind a NAT or a central Wi-Fi, and thus would get everyone in the whole building banned. But the point is that Valve dedicating more resources to VAC doesn't seem likely.
It would seem they're simply ignoring the issue since they get such good money from selling items and keys and from cheaters simply re-buying the game, if you believe that argument. One can draw that conclusion from the amount of platitudes we get from Valve "our ongoing efforts to combat cheating", etc, etc, while at the same time the game is filled with cheaters and nothing changes.
I'm suggesting it exactly because of that, since Valve seems unwilling to put more money into VAC. You would still play against cheaters, if they are only playing against other cheaters they will catch on very quickly. What they really need is what was suggested in the past, x amount of casual wins or hours played or both before they are allowed into matchmaking.
If they have to invest a bunch of time and effort into making a cheat account this will deter alot of people. This will also reduce smurfing issues. And on top of it all they might get banned playing the unranked games for cheating before they even make it to matchmaking. I recently bought CS:GO because it was recently released on linux. If I had to play on casual servers I wouldn't be playing anymore. And if you move all the cheaters to casual servers. I was making it a brief overview of what someone suggested on here before, I think a better term would be unranked matchmaking.
Just a trial period of matchmaking that you have to put a bit of time into not a shit ton just to make your account worth a little something before you can jump into ranked MM. Cheaters would have a hard time getting all the way through it without getting caught for cheating, and even if they did they have to go through it every time they get banned.
So it works on 2 fronts, deters people from even trying to cheat because of the time they have to put in to get into MM, and also catches some cheaters that try to go through it before they make it to MM. I think with just this simple system in place you would see a big difference in MM.
And just as a little incentive, they could make it so these unranked matches alter slightly where you start out on MM scale or something. Currently cheaters are quickly promoted to a level when they are outplayed because cheats aren't gamesense etc or spotted because players are more experienced there and more likely to report. Thus little harm is done. If they are kept in lower divisions or this nonranked comp , they will scare new players off creating an ilusion, that there are more cheathers than there really are in CS:GO , do much more damage because they won't likely be outplayed - wallhackers etc and likely go unreported for longer.
This would also be an issue for good players, who don't have a high rank people who played some form of CS previously - they will be forced to play with newbies, generate many false-positive reports for cheating etc. Ultimately it'll solve nothing, because cheaters on new account still need to spend some time to be ranked at all first 10 wins and then to rank up to their desired level. Your solution maybe increases that time twice, while it introduces a lot of new problems.
I dont think they should be kept in lower divisions, it's just more of a intro to ranked that everyone has to go through before going into ranked, that way it's more work for the cheater to get into real MM, which is the point for alot of them, to do well in MM and make themselves feel good even though they don't deserve it.
The only issue with that is if there isn't enough turnover and it ends up being mostly cheaters going through it and the odd legit new player and maybe some smurfs. But it will overall reduce the amount of cheaters because alot of them won't want to bother having to go through this trial period every time. And they could potentially make this trial period or whatever playable as an unranked MM or something, so people who don't want to worry about a derank or something can just go play this instead to help increase its player base.
Also the first 10 wins aren't a waste of time, in fact those are the most crucial matches to cheat in. If they stomp for 10 games straight while unranked they would get placed extremely high to start, probably straight into eagle LEM or supreme, which is what they want to quickly get high rank without earning it. The main problem with cheating is it's too easy. If you make them invest a bunch of time to essentially get no where and possibly get banned before even making it to MM, they are alot less likely to go through that much effort.
If they can't be bothered to learn and get good at the game like everyone else, I'm willing to bet a lot of them wouldn't put down the time to get through trial games either. So at first the trial accounts of cheaters might be pretty common sight, but as they get past a banwave or two they will get tired of doing it over and over and begin to decline in population.
I really don't see a much better alternative, other than making the game more expensive. There has to be consequences in terms of time or money to these people that cheat, otherwise there really isn't any deterrent. Banning their account is ok, but the game is relatively cheap especially considering how much the cs:go cheats generally cost. But time is valuable to everyone equally, which is why I think it's the best solution. Ok, fair points about first ten matches, not sure if I believe in the cheater's motivation proposed.
Back in the day before vac and overwatch people used really obvious cheats just to make other people miserable. There were no ranking systems either example of this: enemy territory. It was just fun at the expense of others. Getting to high divisions might be a motivation, but I don't think it's the only one or even the most important one.
To sum up: I don't think that cheaters would consider time spent bullying in unranked matchmaking lost. I assume there are more people not eligible for overwatch than eligible right now. That would enable overwatch to take more cases in general I imagine now only people who get most reports are reviewed and other demos wait in a looong loooong queue.
Adding a possibility to report people while watching your own demo, since it's rarely clear who is cheating in the game. Add some overwatch incentives, so people do it more often - special skins, keys, coins, whatever. Use a combination of hard to change parameters like unique drive IDs, mac addreses, hardware installed, CPU serial number, location, IP, times of activity, country, credit card number, in game nickname, avatar to identify an user to VAC.
If they won't provide it - refund the game and be done with them. Well I mean, the ones who are blatant and don't care it won't help with, but the ones that try to act legit i think it would interfere with a lot.
It would be awesome if it could be done. Something like that would be amazing, because then you would never have to catch a cheater more than once. Well, because if you have any repeat offenders despite 4 you want to catch them as soon as possible, and let them ruin as little games as possible - and I'd assume that cheater in a higher rank would be spotted faster.
Hard part to code here is that bit when it's "simmilar enough". Because the cheaters are likely to start changing some of those values when they realize what is happening. At the same time you don't want too many false positives. Gathering the data about the computer is pretty easy and I'd say it's legal, since windows does a simmilar thing. Like I said before, facebook and bitcoin markets can require your legal personal identification, so I'd say if the largest companies are doing it, it's probably legal.
Problem is sales. So you pretty much have to do this only when you suspect someone - like facebook does. How are lobbies that que to be matched? Will they play vs cheaters because they have one WHer in their team that isnt batant? I know that titanfall did something like that for the pc version but i dont know how that worked out. So for them it probably wasn't much of a big deal. I actually think a whole game based around the idea of wallhacking would be interesting.
The strats would definitely be way different than any other FPS. I know, I have a lot of nostalgia for it but I can't play it anymore. Plus I used to play back when I used super high sensitivity, I tried to play again with my current low sensitivity and I couldn't control the recoil at all. There were hack servers in 1. It was whoever could fine-tune their hacks the best and move to their advantage.
Lie to the client that its Or change the game so on specific packet it changes the whatever is in the netgraph to What if I play with a mate who is hell band without my knowledge? Do we play a mixed lobby of half hell banned players? You'll play vs cheaters, realize that your friend is hellbanned and then stop playing with him. You're basing this off the cheater not realising that he's been "hellbanned" which delays him from creating another account to cheat on, all whilst allowing him to trade his items to it?
That sounds pointless. That's a very fair point. I don't know the answer, but I suspect that the answer would be that detected cheaters would be able to play on community servers until they get their final "real" VAC-ban which in this case would came with a very, very big delay, like half a year or so.
I don't think ive ever seen a cheater in this game and ive played over hours, are they just not obvious? At nova you won't see any cheaters. I saw my first cheater at MG1, he was aiming at the floor and looked like his sensitivity was the highest it could go. There are cheaters at every level.
You have to know what cheats look like vs what good play looks like. There have been some known cases admittedly few of false positives from VAC. This could raise an even bigger issue with trying to appeal. Two cheaters will most likely be able to tell when absolutely everyone in the game has cheats, and people who know they have been shadowbanned will just go wild.
Three what's to stop a cheat company from tracking accounts with known shadowbans and alerting players and also tracking it for internal purposes. What if someone who has been hellbanned queued with a friend who hadn't been hellbanned. Would the MM system but the cheater in a server with legit players or put the legit player in a server with cheaters? Firstly, the queue times lasting 5x longer would be a strong hint.
Then youd just end up in a shitshow of a game and you'd know for sure. Detecting other cheaters is pretty easy when you have walls on yourself. These guys would know the deal on their first game. What do you mean with "the system is not working"?
It works as intended. If they already have a vac ban on their profile it's because they got caught cheating in another game. If you got vac'ed in call of duty you can still play cs:go etc. When I say "it's not working", I mean that we still play against cheaters. They are not going away, even if they get banned. They come back with a new identity. If you have a system that tries to prevent cheaters from playing against you, and cheaters are still playing against you by large numbers, then I can safely claim that the system is not working.
This isn't going to happen because Valve has no interest in spending money on servers dedicated to cheaters. I think it's a great idea conceptually, but I just can't see it actually happening. Nah, I don't think that this would be a problem for them, since cheaters already play the game on their servers for a long time before getting banned because VAC has such a big delay between detection and issuing a ban. And if this is indeed a big problem, then that means that the amount of cheaters in this game must be monstrous, at which point, you HAVE to do something about it.
You're missing what he's saying. It would be wasteful to have to set aside servers in case a cheater match is set up and not be able to utilize all resources for legitimate matches. Your argument is factually invalid. Valve wouldn't have to "spend money on servers dedicated to cheaters". There is no reason why Valve can't simply place ten cheaters on the normal server. In a similar sense to how the same server is used to host a Silver I game and a The Global Elite game at different times, the same server can be used for a legit game and a cheater game at different times.
I don't think this is practical but I really like the idea. It would be so funny having all these cheaters playing against each other for weeks lol. There would be some really frustrated cheaters in those servers. I think one thing needed is a trade ban, but it will show a normal error instead. I don't want cheaters to be able to keep their knives. But at some point you're going to find out that your friend cheats anyway, since a hellban is only a precursor to the final VAC-ban.
A problem I see is what if you weren't cheating and you just get reported by people who think you're cheating because you hit a hard shot, I mean would overwatch still be in place or not? I guess that my initial suggestion to also hellban overwatch convicts is wrong. Since no cheat was actually detected by VAC, there's no danger in telling the player that an overwatch ban occurred, since that won't alarm the cheat developers that their cheat is now detected. I stopped playing in Australia, every game or every two games there are cheaters.
Some don't give a fuck and are just blatant, others are walling and playing relatively smart about it until they start prefiring or always finding you when turning corners first thing thus reacting first. Not sure if legal or wanted. I mean, just because you cheat doesn't mean that you can't buy games from Steam anymore. Most people seem to agree that the main drawback of this solution is that it dedicates more server resources to cheaters. However, that's only assuming people who get caught cheating VAC-banned stop playing altogether.
Hellbanning provides a huge incentive against cheating and makes it far more likely that a cheater will switch back to their main accounts. Some will switch without even being banned. Not only that, but developers won't need to spend as many resources trying to detect every new hack that's released. It'll prevent hackers to know whether it has been shadow banned or not to prevent literally telling the hacks have been detected.
It'll allow Valve to ban quicker without the vac ban delay. Have the shadow banned get the delayed vac ban eventually so they can't be sold to unsuspecting account buyers. Don't care about CSGO items. Why does that even matter? Getting rid of hackers is better than a hacker losing stupid skins. You are so wrong, and you don't even know it. You wrote this extremely long topic, but it was kinda useless to put it bluntly since you based it on completely incorrect grounds.
The fact of the matter is that VAC has never ever been stronger in the history of Valve. And by right now I mean the last month in particular. Go to some public CS:GO cheating forum, and you will see that a majority of all the pay to cheat sites are detected and have been so for a week or two by now.
Whereas usually, the detected pay2cheat's are amongst the exceptions. But now only some very, very few cheats that only offer legit cheat features are still undetected. I could barely even find a simple wallhack pay to cheat over at the biggest forum for these kinds of things. The vast majority of the very few sites that have avoided the recent VAC ban waves, are sites that only offer the most legit cheats. So the odds of you spotting any so called 'blatant cheaters' right now are super duper slim, UNLESS the player you met didn't care about his account and used a detected cheat on it, which he will be banned for within a week.
But there ARE a lot of people that don't mind their accounts getting banned within a week, and go full blatant with cheats. That, or they are new cheaters that don't know how obvious they are being, and will be surprised when they get banned quickly. Sometimes overwatch bans happen to innocent players An overwatch ban is issued by the players, which means no matter how you put it, it can be issued to someone who is not cheating at all.
I think its possible to appeal an overwatch ban. Think of it this way, an overwatch ban is like beeing convicted by a jury. A VAC ban is like getting caught red handed. MM has been really toxic lately with the hacking. They openly admit it and don't seem to care at all. Something is broken in the system.
Why not just give cheaters their own servers, that why if they decide to hack, they'll ruin their own game. I'm wondering, how will it be for people that have queued with the cheater and they honestly didn't know that he cheated? They won't have any idea that he got VAC banned either and might continuosly queue up with the cheater. Seems a bit unfair for them, because some cheaters are pretty good at hiding their cheats, or only toggle when nobody is watching them.
You can't VAC ban like that. What if someone joins a community server? You can overwatch ban like that though, as they only block matchmaking. I'd like a system where they incorporate instant bans if something hazy is detected. Unusual behaviour of mouse movement, unnatural accuracy shots, etc. If player is detected by the instaban system, then he gets temp ban and wont be able to play matchmaking.
At the end, there are 2 results. In 2 weeks time, he either gets unbanned for being a false positive or VAC banned based on the cheat he used. There are alreay systems like this in server plugins, such as SourceBans where players get instant bans for eye detection violation aka aimbot. Valv e has to do something against cheaters. If our good streamers stop the game they will take a large amount of gamers with them.
Summit, Pasha etc. They're working on it, also I'm surprised, with the experience valve has had working with the same anti cheat system since the early-mid 's, that they can't detect WH and instantly ban for it instead of waiting until the next ban wave. And as for the ban wave, there are cheat providers who have recently been detected and VAC bans their customers within hours of playing, why do the other ones only get taken out during ban waves?
What about people like me, who play legit but got banned for modding 5 years ago? Isn't someone allowed to start fresh? This doesn't apply to you. It only applies to people who are internally flagged to get a VAC-ban because a cheat was detected on their system. What's the point in even bothering wasting time and resources on these morons? The availability of decent servers is evidently already a problem as it is, hosting an open gate hack-fest will worsen the issue at best.
Overall I don't see how this benefits anyone but the idiots who decide to cheat in the first place, all it really does is allow them to continue to play. Queue time would be long for them so they would quickly realize that they are "banned" and will send all their items to new accounts and play with them.
This would require that they don't find out they're in the hellban queue. I imagine that the cheat providers would find ways to detect their customers' hellban status rather quickly. I think the reason people disagree with you is pretty stupid. You can find him on the floor, struggling under the weight of his Steam backlog. Please deactivate your ad blocker in order to see our subscription offer.
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